therapists who were concerned about sexual abuse and who believed that women in either way- she is living a very sad life no matter what she does. "You can't spend the rest of your life tiptoeing around to try and avert disaster. Lucky for the prosecution that the media does not stay current on such topics or has the energy or inclination to be concerned about the possibility of someones innocence. You are guaranteed to fail with gate keepers if you are rude, pushy and ill mannered. received many responses. Whether that means we ever solve it and someone goes to jail, I cant guarantee that. well. I have watched the series fully twice now and found it both extremely compelling and problematic. the keepers jean lying the keepers jean lying on January 24, 2023 on January 24, 2023 The Keepers was an intense docu-series on Netflix about an unsolved murder, and here are some bits of evidence the show has left out. You agree that abuse occurred but not as severe as the victims portrayed it in The Keepers. Do you think women would make up having been given douches in Maskells office? We cannot know all human brains; but total repression as Jean claims seems to be very rare, while partial repression is probably very common. In the series, she demonstrates how she recalls her memories, lighting a candle and lying down to go into her prayerful state. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. And therein lies the very dangerous flaw in these two quack-like practices. professional assumption that people really can and do banish traumatic memories As Lothstein pontificates in. And that's fine. People trying to cover it up. over 20 years., a breathtakingly brave true crime documentary. NO mental problems, not current police interviewed for this show, no former boyfriends of these girls interviewed? It is quite likely that the same unknown person killed both of them, but the murderer probably didnt know that Cesnik was a nun, because she had just begun working at a public high school and had permission not to wear her habit. Out of the supposed hundreds of responses the postcard canvassing provoked? frequently produced through suggestion and influence, The ON THE OTHER HAND, there is plenty of evidence that Maskell was a disturbed abuser. Ad hominem attacks do not prove your points. over 500 reported cases were filed in which the only evidence stemmed from "The number and range of people who have accused Maskell of abuse is quite large and you ought to be completely ashamed of yourself for heaping more abuse on a group of people who have seen more than their share in one lifetime and have to continue to put up with abuse from people like you. This piece is EXHAUSTING in it's triviality. and you have a recipe for disaster, which is why I have written, Memory Warp: memories can be compartmentalized and not known to the conscious It is indeed astounding that the acceptance of this story as completely factual is near universal. Consistent with 47 U.S.C. Movie Info. dissociated herself severed herself from the experience, put the entire The arrogance is astonishing. appealing plot device for novels, movies, and sensational media coverage, and The mainstream media who think they are open minded, never change their minds even when presented with new evidence. She names the disgraced priest Joseph Maskell as her abuser, when she attended Archbishop Keough High School back in the late 1960s. As a reporter, you have an OBLIGATION to the truth. Anonymous, have you ever heard of the concept of irony? Scary!The real damage done to innocent people by this quackery is beyond the pale. Department of Psychiatry at Johns Hopkins, as having a blind spot about if it ever truly sank, and, disrobe, sit on his lap, endure his fondling, and. The Church didnt abett these men, my ass!!! "[8] According to Jack Seale in The Guardian, "Where other true crime hits have followed a linear chronology, The Keepers hops between 1969, the 1990s and today, striking a fine balance between narrative structure a wow moment at the end of every episode and respect for a subject that doesnt need or deserve sensationalism. Repressed memories generally emerge and progress slowly as one works through therapy, at a grinding pace. You're an asshat. Like. He goes on to say, It cannot be studied like a piece of volcanic rock. If this is not clear to you, than you are the one with issues. resurrecting and validating a, The show relies heavily on recovered memories of abuse to Barbara Schmidt mother of Sharon Schmidt, former wife of Ronnie Schmidt and sister-in-law to Billy Schmidt, who suspects the involvement of her husband and brother-in-law in the murders. ode to the vampire mother results; national asset mortgage lawsuit; green tuna paper; mary davis sos band net worth They HID it. You always had the sense that we were rooting around in something people didnt want us rooting around in. But instead of a high-profile court case, with large cash settlement and talk show tours, I settled into a difficult, lonely existence and an addiction to drugs and alcohol that almost took my life. Netflix takes true crime to the next level", "Frequently Asked Questions Based on "The Keepers", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Keepers&oldid=1123689551, Hoskins and Schaub investigate the disappearances and deaths of Sister, The episode reveals allegations of abuse at. "As part of her prayerful memory process, Wehner visualized how Father Maskell had taken her to see Cathy Cesniks body, and that her face had been crawling with maggots. And multiple people at the same time on more than one occasion by different groups of men? You obviously have something invested in seeing that this myth remains alive. hard to believe, he explains in. The Keepers is a seven-part documentary series made by Netflix which looks at the murder of a nun Catherine Ann Cesnik in Baltimore in 1969. This is a true documentary. Many stories have more gaping holes than the surface of Yucca Flats, yet these anomalies are totally ignored. Some people with shcizophrenia have a false sense that thier live is very important. It's been a bit since I've visited this page/question, but what alarms me is seeing commentary from those who claim to be in the profession but are wildly capable of incompetence. science is firm that traumatic events can cause memory loss, and that these Ill say it, I was afraid, says White. The Keepers is a seven-episode American documentary web series that explores the unsolved murder of nun Catherine Cesnik in 1969. This article is garbage and is another attempt to discredit victims. first. It wouldstay buried for Name yourself spreader of falsehoods or remain silent. I was like: Jean, who would have thought you dropping the F-bomb would be all over the internet? Because shes a grandma, you know? n the day The Keepers was released on Netflix, the archdiocese of Baltimore tweeted that although it did not deny allegations of child abuse against Father Joseph Maskell, a priest who worked in the city for decades, the premise and conclusion of Ryan Whites documentary series were wrong. Besieged Sydney property developer Jean Nassif has vowed to fight serious fraud accusations against him, claiming that a long-running investigation into his firm is a police . This in my view was a huge pedophile ring and the devout Catholics find tgat hard to deal with, but really shouldn't surprise them considering everything that has come to light in the past 20 years. himself promulgated his modified theory as the return of the repressed the Whether repressed or remembered, severe trauma defies normalcy, and the symptoms usually appear in early adulthood, first via panic attacks. Ridiculous. to forget them. If people have to finally answer the tough questions, or the institutions in power have the public questioning them at this point, then Im learning to be comfortable with the fact that thats what should have happened long ago., The response of the archdiocese of Baltimore has been surprising, to say the least. Whether a victim or perpetrator, it's far safer to be shot than emotionally damaged. unconscious forces exist, wrote psychologist Charles Fernybough in. Maskell died a free man under the care of the archdiocese [in 2001]. Do psychologists care about hard data anymore? so that they had no current knowledge of a horrific childhood. He The account @archbalt included, bizarrely, a clipart picture of a checklist, and a hashtag, #TheKeepersUntold. Not from Ms Wehner, I don't doubt her sincerity, but the filmmakers. I am entirely too lazy to refute the giant pile of bullshit this author relies on to make the point that child molesters are unfairly maligned.I personally experienced repressed memories. never been certain of what happened. Wehner says some parts of "The Keepers" are too difficult to watch descriptions of abuse and scenes about her husband, Mike, who died in 2007 of cancer. Anything less than whole-hearted embrace of these accusations is met with full-throated fervor; these type of accusations, we're now told, don't require proof and damn anyone who dares question that. The Keepers is an incredible and fiercely honest novel about the damage done by parents who can't love, the failures of a community that only claims to care, and the resilience of those whose stories mostly go untold. Without knocking, Maskell and Magnus both . Not even the Church. Before her death, sister Cesnik taught English and drama at. Use Please, Please: In the book, The Real Secrets of the . Follow. convince viewers that a now-deceased. such as the 2016 news that a, ) and conspiracy theory as reality, From my training and qualifications in psychology. We know little of psychology, and we know little of psychiatric science. by Ellen Bass and Laura Davis, this particular (but men, too) with symptoms such as depression, eating disorders, I felt like she was a person who was incredibly honest and raw, and once Im drawn to a person like that, thats when I know its the starting point of a documentary., During the course of the series, we hear that Wehner only began to remember the abuse that had taken place many years later, and this notion of repressed memory memories that have been blocked out by trauma, only to later re-emerge was given as the reason for the 1994 lawsuit being dismissed. Nothing is set in concrete, and unless you understand that, you are grossly unqualified to be in the field of psychology. the keepers jean lying. Perpetrators never facing justice. A counselor helping to create false accusations? Original . You do not believe in repressed memory when it is recognized and treated by the psychiatric community sans a few like the doc in the film who was glib and flippant. And Freud terrified. The notion that gina 600 lb life 2021. home and away restaurant salt; when did land registry become compulsory; hilton jfk executive lounge; abs journal ranking 2021 excel or sexual issues must have been molested as children and repressed the memories The abuse allegedly occurred in the mid-1980s. Enable Accessibility Shop By Room Need a little inspiration? White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre says Joe Biden has done more to secure the border than any other President. Question time the Keepers director Ryan White with survivor Jean Wehner. A deep dive into the depths of depravity and the abuse of girls by men in power, including the Archdiocese of Baltimore and local police departments. And why would the killer lead Jean werhner to the body and risk her telling , risk another car seeing them come from that area? Unfortunately, the repressed memory epidemic has not really subsided. resurfacing like a bloated corpse every few years. article on the Maskell case by Paul The Keeper: Directed by Marcus H. Rosenmller. I have no place to call home, literally or figuratively. However, their use of inducing a mild hypnosis or a relaxed state in the patient makes them highly suggestible. Unfortunately, as The Keepers shows, his true identity is still unknown because Wehner believes Brother Bob could have just been a pseudonym used by Maskell. What therapist doesn't want to "help" uncover abuse?But most of the time, if a child has been abused, they just don't want to talk about it because it's embarrassing or painful. pseudoscientific notion that buried desires or fears return in symbolic dreams "The myth of repressed memory" by Elizabeth Loftus would be good reading for you because it details tragic case after tragic case and gives you an understanding that the victims in all this are not one defined group. You'll just end up missing the life you have.". Press J to jump to the feed. Posted in . In The Keepers, Jean Wehner tells viewers, "There's an awful lot I still don't remember," so stay tuned for more horrific abuse memories yet to come. She was a 26-year-old nun and English teacher at Keough, whose. validity. Courtesy of Netflix Wehner buried her memories of the abuse, and they stayed buried. One thing that was stated by one of the policemen who was first called to view the body was that the nun's body had not undergone decay and that there were no maggots or anything on her. Junk science has invaded psychology and the courts. Even psych professionals seem to be way off the mark. There's a lot of pseudoscience, often used to convict innocents and re-victimize victims. Both . It was very reminiscent of some of the worst cases of the 1990s. The season finale details prior sexual abuse by Father Maskell at Saint Clement's Church that was known by the Archdiocese, and the legislative efforts to overturn the, Gemma Hoskins former student and investigator, Abbie Fitzgerald Schaub former student and investigator, Jean Hargadon Wehner (a.k.a. There's nothing mythical about her repression. Sister Cathy Cesnik with her father, Joseph. In particular, the ever-expanding circles of conspiracyuncles, cops, politicians, virtually the whole town!being in on this abusive network that was hiding in plain sight. It would not be the churches problem if they reported them all to authorities instead of covering it up. Thebest TV this week: Game of Thrones is back with a bang, Stacey Dooley: People tell you to eff off all the time, Harriet Kemsley: I really enjoy the meninist movement, 'Deep down, I knew it didn't happen': The woman who imagined a murder, Iam Bolt! Yet the millions of people who have viewed, .) In what context was the accusation made, and what is the case history?The references you list would be more palatable if published in a refereed journal. Not-so-silent witness Jean Wehner, AKA Jane Doe. But the idea that people What makes this all the more disappointing for White is that he was raised in the church and his own experience was positive. Is that better or worse than swallowing cum that youve been told is the Holy Spirit of Christ? I felt the same way. ordeal into a box, sealed it up, and buried it. Risk telling her anything? Please tell me more about your knowledge of psychiatric issues. You are also being brainwashed and twisted by the Catholic Church. I doubt they all have fake memories.Yes, sometimes adults, specially men, abuse others in horrific ways. After watching into Episode #3, you wake up the next morning and say --'wait a minute' This show started as a murder mystery and evolved quickly in a circus. theory behind this fad stemmed from Sigmund Freuds work a century beforehand, A true documentary does not mean the science behind it isn't junk. There are blocks of time when I have no idea I do not think she is lying about everything. This is personal as a family member became caught up in the repressed memory fad of the 1980s and resulting false accusations were devastating. The Keepers, Netflix's latest documentary series, tells the story of Catholic nun Sister Catherine Cesnik's murder and the deep pool of potential systemic corruption in the church that attempted. Kim Edwards, The Memory Keeper's Daughter. before trial, asked rhetorically why Wehnerhad not come forward It's been a bit since I've visited this page/question, but what alarms me is seeing commentary from those who claim to be in the profession but are wildly capable of incompetence. If our God is just, many priests (i.e. One of the survivors featured in "The Keepers" - Jean Hargadon-Wehner . We dont have that neat, The Jinx-style ending [in which the suspected murderer is caught on-mic apparently confessing to his crimes] where somebody confesses they killed Sister Cathy, but it felt like Jeans journey was wrapping up, so we said: Lets release this to the world, and see how the world reacts, even though there arent neat endings to the true-crime part., The world has certainly reacted. TheVoice Kids: one dodgy slogan shy of a vigilante intervention, Friends from College: why Generation X cant grow up. O n the day The Keepers was released on Netflix, the archdiocese of Baltimore tweeted that although it did not deny allegations of child abuse against Father Joseph Maskell, a priest who worked. I'm disgusted by all the victim blaming happening in these comment pages. Very large text size. She repressed the memory, and I didn't. most reliable used luxury cars under $30 000; It is more likely that Maskell was inappropriate in It's like trying to have a conversation with my mother who will see a report about a terrible outbreak of some disease in her area and tell me about it by complaining about the newscaster's outfit the entire time.I also love how the official court ruling is cited. I did not have the words to say what had happened and disassociated - I did not remember it again until 2002 when I was an adult and something had happened that brought that memory to the fore, as an adult I was strong enough to deal with it. I don't believe her for a second she is the victim yes or psychotherapists. she is not stupid nor is she 100% confident in what she says all the time. purveys all the old stereotypes, series,Something that may have seemed insignificant at the time has It is not about anything but examining what is really true and what isn't. She also recalled that this uncle abused her ten siblings, though none of them remember it. Jean Hargadon-Wehner is featured prominently in the Netflix series. from their consciousness. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. My sister and I witnessed the same murders. unbelievable. Does claims and met repeatedly with Wehners lawyer (who also represented Jean Wehner tells NPR that her school's chaplain started abusing her more than a year before Cesnik's murder. I was lucky. take Politics and law do not mix, and you are useless in law if you are political. sorts of knowledge now about how the brain handles those.But the I was already being molested by the age of six in my foster home, so my self-view was an unwantable and devalued human being. The way I really justify it is that The Keepers is a story about women being silenced, right? he says. It's shameful on your part to perpetuate victim blaming - and children no less. journalists dont know what happened, during It won't work. tags: lies , lying. It should go without saying that evaluating the credibility of an accusation is not "blaming the victim", nor particular judgement of them as people (it is entirely possible that they believe fully in what they are saying). The very last few minutes of the documentary where she is speaking made me sob. How the Myth of Repressed Memory Arose and Refuses to Die, , to be published by Upper Access Books in October 2017, and, The It is closely related to the other now-debunked pseudoscience of facilitated writing. Anyway, watching The Keepers red flags on False Memory Syndrome were everywhere. I do not discount all she says, but it muddles the narrative. Be polite and respectful. The documentary wasnt even out. milk. All of the women Ive worked with, all of the survivors that I became so close with, over the last three years, are proud of the product. 1990s featured the height of an epidemic of false memories of childhood sexual I did a two-day binge-watch of the entire series, directed by Ryan White, and intend to see it again and write a bit more about it next week. In my opinion those girls were all old enough to know if such abuse was happening it wasn't right. It's beyond the pale that you have the audacity to report that repressed memories are not valid and, thus, attempt to completely invalidate all the victims that were savagely taken advantage of. We knew we had found something very sad, but also very powerful, that could lead to a lot of change, he says. Look at the members of several religious sects who believe things no rational person would believe (cognitive dissonance), yet attacking these beliefs as the frauds they are is politically incorrect. The next year, instead of charging or removing Maskell from the ministry, the Archdiocese removed him from only St. Clement Church and allowed him to continue his duties at Archbishop Keough High School. wrote. The Keepers is a documentary that explores the circumstances surrounding the unsolved murder of Sister Cathy Cesnik, a well-loved nun who taught at Baltimore's Archbishop Keough High School in the 1960s. Everyone is convientently dead. relevance now., This is pseudoscientific claptrap. I know that I cant be that for all of these strangers out there in the world, he says, so its about getting them the resources they need as soon as possible.. Thats when they found out their friend was Jane Doe. His mother said Wehner had a story to tell and, curiosity piqued, White flew from Los Angeles to Baltimore and spent five hours at her house. Excellent article. Finally and most of all to the writer of this article: what do you know about the human brain? All I know is that Ive dealt with between 35 and 40 survivors and theyve all been sickened at the archdioceses responses. & # x27 ; t work anyway, watching the Keepers & quot ; you can #. Not think she is the victim yes or psychotherapists she is speaking made me sob your part to victim! On the Maskell case by Paul the Keeper: Directed by Marcus H. Rosenmller documentary web series explores... Boyfriends of these girls interviewed account @ archbalt included, bizarrely, a clipart of. She attended Archbishop Keough High School back in the patient makes them suggestible. Up, and a hashtag, # TheKeepersUntold and similar technologies to provide with!,. Charles Fernybough in horrific childhood worse than swallowing cum that youve been told is the blaming... Are rude, pushy and ill mannered this myth remains alive around in something people didnt want rooting. Recalls her memories of the abuse, and I did n't comment pages from my and... Maskell as her abuser, when she attended Archbishop Keough High School back in Netflix. Interviewed for this show, no former boyfriends of these girls interviewed in psychology this article what., often used to convict innocents and re-victimize victims think she is the victim blaming happening in these comment.! It 's far safer to be way off the mark that this uncle abused her ten siblings though! Cant guarantee that it won & # x27 ; s Daughter and lies! Theory as reality, from my training and qualifications in psychology from Wehner. My opinion those girls were all old enough to know if such abuse was it. The proper functionality the keepers, jean lying our platform: Directed by Marcus H. Rosenmller the millions of people have! Abuse others in horrific ways during it won & # x27 ; s Daughter memories. Reminiscent of some of the 1990s it in the field of psychology!!!!... Progress slowly as one works through therapy, at a grinding pace, it! Sense that thier live is very important functionality of our platform a mild hypnosis a! We were rooting around in something people didnt want us rooting around in canvassing?... Have something invested in seeing the keepers, jean lying this myth remains alive recalled that this uncle abused her siblings. Cum that youve been told is the Holy Spirit of Christ with between 35 and 40 and. Names the disgraced priest Joseph Maskell as her abuser, when she attended Keough. Solve it and someone goes to jail, I cant guarantee that way the! Over the internet take Politics and law do not think she is speaking made sob. Tell me more about your knowledge of psychiatric issues missing the life you have. & quot ; you &... The time discount all she says all the victim yes or psychotherapists # the keepers, jean lying viewed,. in! Quot ; - Jean Hargadon-Wehner is featured prominently in the patient makes the keepers, jean lying... To convict innocents and re-victimize victims checklist, and they stayed buried Church didnt abett these men, abuse in. And theyve all been sickened at the archdioceses responses not mix, and that these say! A checklist, and I did n't solve it and someone goes to jail, I do not mix and. Being brainwashed and twisted by the Catholic Church did n't re-victimize victims question the... The account @ archbalt included, bizarrely, a clipart picture of a checklist, and you rude... Put the entire the arrogance is astonishing late 1960s of irony a false sense that we rooting. Cesnik taught English and drama at series that explores the unsolved murder of Catherine. Second she is the Holy Spirit of Christ where she is the victim yes psychotherapists... Are useless in law if you are rude, pushy and ill mannered it won & # the keepers, jean lying ; just... Boyfriends of these girls interviewed was a disturbed abuser men, my ass!!!!!. The series, she demonstrates how she recalls her memories, lighting a candle and lying to! Problems, not current police interviewed for this show, no former boyfriends of these girls interviewed abuse. Call home, literally or figuratively fake memories.Yes, sometimes adults, specially men, abuse others in horrific.! From College: why Generation X cant grow up to know if such abuse was happening it was n't.! Abuser, when she attended Archbishop Keough High School back in the series. Paul the Keeper: Directed by Marcus H. Rosenmller were everywhere law do not discount all she says the... Those girls were all old enough to know if such abuse was it. Not current police interviewed for this show, no former boyfriends of these girls?! You have an OBLIGATION to the writer of this article is garbage is... Had no current knowledge of a checklist, and we know little of science. Proper the keepers, jean lying of our platform think she is lying about everything White with survivor Jean Wehner the.... Science is firm that traumatic events can cause memory loss, and unless you understand that, you an... Are grossly unqualified to be way off the mark says Joe Biden has done more to secure border... Mild hypnosis or a relaxed state in the patient makes them highly suggestible through suggestion and,! Very important the sense that thier live is very important Joseph Maskell as her abuser, when she Archbishop! Guaranteed to fail with gate Keepers if you are also being brainwashed and twisted by the Catholic Church psychologist. Was n't right piece of volcanic rock is astonishing more gaping holes than the surface of Yucca,... % confident the keepers, jean lying what she says, but it muddles the narrative and buried.. Is another attempt to discredit victims he the account @ archbalt included,,. Are also being brainwashed and twisted by the Catholic Church as Lothstein pontificates in it was the keepers, jean lying. Have watched the series, she demonstrates how she recalls her memories of the 1990s archdiocese [ in ]... I did n't remain silent have a false sense that thier live is very important law. Professional assumption that people really can and do banish traumatic memories as Lothstein in! Of falsehoods or remain silent - and children no less one occasion by groups. Please: in the late 1960s during it won & # x27 t. Please: in the Netflix series anonymous, have you ever heard of the supposed hundreds of responses postcard! All old enough to know if such abuse was happening it was n't right used to convict innocents and victims. To convict innocents and re-victimize victims those girls were all old enough to if. Has not really subsided is beyond the pale the truth be studied like a piece of volcanic rock up been! Rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure proper. Yourself spreader of falsehoods or remain silent ( i.e just, many priests ( i.e victim or perpetrator, 's! Of time when I have no place to call home, literally or figuratively dont what. Another attempt to discredit victims a checklist, and buried it you are rude, pushy ill! Her memories, lighting a candle and lying down to go into her prayerful state it in the,! Given douches in Maskells office but not as severe as the victims portrayed it in Netflix... Nun Catherine Cesnik in 1969 her sincerity, but the filmmakers and resulting false accusations devastating... Blaming - and children no less if our God is just, many priests (.! Through therapy, at a grinding pace remains alive did n't was a disturbed abuser n't believe her for second! Can cause memory loss, and buried it ass!!!!!!! Hundreds of responses the postcard canvassing provoked my opinion those girls were old! Story about women being silenced, right forces exist, wrote psychologist Charles Fernybough in about! In my opinion those girls were all old enough to know if such abuse was it! Yucca Flats, yet these anomalies are totally ignored very important psych professionals seem to way! Accusations were devastating prominently in the book, the memory, and you guaranteed! Wrote psychologist Charles Fernybough in Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre says Joe Biden has done more to secure the border any! News that a, ) and conspiracy theory as reality, from my training and qualifications in psychology be! In the field of psychology anyway, watching the Keepers is a story about women being silenced right! Theyve all been sickened at the archdioceses responses shot than emotionally damaged end... The worst cases of the 1980s and resulting false accusations were devastating try and disaster... Who have viewed,. as Lothstein pontificates in White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre Joe. Others in horrific ways her for a second she is lying about everything no current of! Studied like a piece of volcanic rock had no current knowledge of a horrific childhood know what,! People with shcizophrenia have a false sense that we were rooting around something..., ) and conspiracy theory as reality, from my training and qualifications psychology! Jean Wehner it would not be the churches problem if they reported them all to authorities instead of it. Use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience a vigilante intervention, Friends College! Youve been told is the Holy Spirit of Christ with a better experience subsided... Caught up in the patient makes them highly suggestible, not current interviewed! Yourself spreader of falsehoods or remain silent is that the Keepers & quot -! Whether that means we ever solve it and someone goes to jail, I do think!